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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>triage meeting on Zulip? · t-lang · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/index.html">t-lang</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html">triage meeting on Zulip?</a></h3>

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<a name="191951246"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/191951246" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#191951246">(Mar 26 2020 at 21:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>So, before the meeting today, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span> and I were discussing the idea of holding lang team triage meetings on Zulip. At minimum, I think it makes sense to move the "pre-triage" meetings to Zulip -- and I might be amenable to trying some of the triage meetings on Zulip as well.</p>
<p>My reasoning:</p>
<ul>
<li>More accessible, truly detailed minutes, can ping affected folks more easily sometimes</li>
<li>Generally improves my quality of life a bit -- I find too many video meetings a bit overwhelming</li>
</ul>
<p>But there are some downsides:</p>
<ul>
<li>Zulip meetings move slower a lot of the time, since people sometimes get distracted or respond less quickly</li>
<li>Detailed discussion of trade-offs and things might feel a bit harder in some cases -- but maybe we should try to move those into dedicated or one-off meetings anyway?</li>
</ul>



<a name="192261660"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192261660" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192261660">(Mar 30 2020 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would prefer sticking with Zoom. Most of the pre-triage is just me / you filling in links anyways, so its just a bunch of silence.<br>
I don't feel we should prioritize more detailed minutes if it makes us less effective. We're already transparent enough as a team.<br>
Regarding pings, we can still do the pinging on Zulip (as we do already).</p>
<p>I definitely don't want to move triage-meetings themselves to Zulip. I think the compiler team meetings are ineffective and I wouldn't want to have the same problem.</p>



<a name="192267459"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192267459" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192267459">(Mar 30 2020 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>If its on Zoom I will not attend.</p>



<a name="192267598"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192267598" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192267598">(Mar 30 2020 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>or sorry</p>



<a name="192267626"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192267626" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192267626">(Mar 30 2020 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>I got confused about what we were discussing</p>



<a name="192267642"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192267642" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192267642">(Mar 30 2020 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>in terms of whether it was the pre-triage or the triage</p>



<a name="192267645"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192267645" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192267645">(Mar 30 2020 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>meeting</p>



<a name="192267731"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192267731" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192267731">(Mar 30 2020 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>I already don't attend the pre-triage meeting regularly, so no loss if I don't come to them.</p>



<a name="192267835"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192267835" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192267835">(Mar 30 2020 at 14:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it would be easier for me to participate if it were on Zulip</p>



<a name="192268064"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192268064" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192268064">(Mar 30 2020 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I think the compiler team meetings are ineffective and I wouldn't want to have the same problem.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I would be curious to know if T-compiler agrees with this assertion. cc <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="492">@T-compiler</span> . It certainly has its problems but I don't think the trying to move that group to Zoom would fix anything.</p>



<a name="192268888"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192268888" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192268888">(Mar 30 2020 at 15:05)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span> whether compiler meetings should move to Zoom feels like a discussion to be had elsewhere <span aria-label="slight smile" class="emoji emoji-1f642" role="img" title="slight smile">:slight_smile:</span></p>



<a name="192269041"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192269041" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192269041">(Mar 30 2020 at 15:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>my point was that you were making an analogy between the lang team meetings and the compiler team meetings, in order to assert that moving the lang team meeting to zulip would make them ineffective.</p>



<a name="192269082"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192269082" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192269082">(Mar 30 2020 at 15:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am yes</p>



<a name="192269103"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192269103" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192269103">(Mar 30 2020 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>And I am asserting that I do not think the ineffectiveness of the compiler team meeting stems from its hosting platform.</p>



<a name="192269177"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192269177" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192269177">(Mar 30 2020 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well I disagree; I think there's a lot of dead time in the compiler meetings, stemming from "does anyone want to say anything?"</p>



<a name="192269202"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192269202" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192269202">(Mar 30 2020 at 15:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>and that doesn't happen as much on t-lang meetings</p>



<a name="192269340"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192269340" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192269340">(Mar 30 2020 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>with a larger group of people, those pauses <em>have</em> to happen.</p>



<a name="192269392"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192269392" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192269392">(Mar 30 2020 at 15:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>otherwise the conversation gets dominated by a minority of those willing to interrupt others.</p>



<a name="192269672"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192269672" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192269672">(Mar 30 2020 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>that, or you need to adopt something more structured</p>



<a name="192269698"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192269698" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192269698">(Mar 30 2020 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>(e.g. Robert's Rules of Order)</p>



<a name="192269714"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192269714" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192269714">(Mar 30 2020 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Assuming that's true (I'm skeptical; I think most of the time people say nothing cause they don't feel strongly), the lang meetings are not as large, so I think the point doesn't apply to us.</p>



<a name="192269829"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192269829" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192269829">(Mar 30 2020 at 15:12)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="126931">centril</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F/near/192269714" title="#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F/near/192269714">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>the lang meetings are not as large, so I think the point doesn't apply to us.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That's right. And therefore, even on Zulip, we would not need to have such pauses.</p>



<a name="192270060"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192270060" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192270060">(Mar 30 2020 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>That doesn't follow. What I understand is you are saying the pauses <em>should</em> happen. I'm saying the platform itself causes that.</p>



<a name="192270189"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192270189" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192270189">(Mar 30 2020 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay so I guess I just disagree that its an artifact of the platform</p>



<a name="192270204"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192270204" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192270204">(Mar 30 2020 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right <span aria-label="slight smile" class="emoji emoji-1f642" role="img" title="slight smile">:slight_smile:</span></p>



<a name="192318452"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192318452" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192318452">(Mar 30 2020 at 21:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hmm. So, I do agree that pauses can sometimes be introduced as a result of the platform. I just think Zoom has its downsides too. I'm not so concerned that we're "not transparent enough" -- but I do find that having the compiler meetings on Zulip has been really great for people getting more involved and following along. In other words, it's no about a "defensive" thing, but more about a "welcoming" thing.</p>
<p>In any case, one option would be to experiment -- try some meetings on Zulip and see how they feel.</p>



<a name="192318530"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192318530" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192318530">(Mar 30 2020 at 21:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>Honestly, some part of it for me is that I find video meetings somewhat more draining.</p>



<a name="192352873"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192352873" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192352873">(Mar 31 2020 at 07:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't see what's unwelcoming about Zoom meetings though; we've had lotsa folk attend not in the team and that has been great</p>



<a name="192369160"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192369160" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192369160">(Mar 31 2020 at 10:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>One aspect to this is I think video meetings produces friendlier conversations than text.</p>



<a name="192379031"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192379031" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192379031">(Mar 31 2020 at 12:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>It is definitely true that Zoom has way higher overhead than a zulip meeting. That said, lang team I think usually has higher bandwidth discussions with fewer people who likely have possible input.</p>



<a name="192563129"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192563129" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192563129">(Apr 01 2020 at 17:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've been thinking about this. I remain interested in giving it a try. I do recognize that zoom can be higher bandwidth, and I can see that being useful, but on the other side I think:</p>
<ul>
<li>Speaking personally, I find it easier, because I can do the calls in more environments, which means it loosens up my schedule a bit. That's particularly helpful now, with things up in the air. It means, for example, that I can do the call downstairs from the kitchen table while my partner is out and my daughter is working on her homework. </li>
<li>I do think it'll "open up" the way we operate a bit. It'll be easier, for example, to tag relevant people when discussing a particular issue and get their input. It'll also make it easier for folks to follow along. It's great that <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> and others have been joining us, and I would hope we might get even more of that.  </li>
<li>I think it may help us to keep a clearer distinction between "triage" and "in-depth discussion" -- I think it'd be kind of useful if we scheduled dedicated meetings for the latter (or, perhaps, spun off a topic). </li>
</ul>
<p>On the other side, though, I think it's true that we'll be giving up some bandwidth, and perhaps a bit of "dedicated attention", which means we might get stuck waiting for people to respond and things like that. </p>
<p>In any case, I'd be particularly curious to hear from <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="239881">@Josh Triplett</span> and <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="125270">@scottmcm</span>, as the other two lang team members who are regularly attending meetings right now.</p>



<a name="192563731"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192563731" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192563731">(Apr 01 2020 at 17:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>I personally prefer the bandwidth and context of Zoom, but I could imagine doing triage over Zulip. When dealing with complex discussions, though, I find it extremely helpful to be able to see how people are following, to avoid the problem of "silently lost but not saying anything". Leaving aside the issue of distractions.</p>



<a name="192564908"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192564908" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192564908">(Apr 01 2020 at 17:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it is true that we'd likely have less ability to have (short) but fairly in-depth discussions at triage meetings if we move to Zulip, but that's maybe not a bad thing. I have felt that those -- while accelerating how quickly some decision can get made -- likely leave out feedback from those not in the room</p>



<a name="192566472"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192566472" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192566472">(Apr 01 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>So, in theory we're not supposed to have any new rationale in the meeting. We should be summarizing the result of the meeting, posting that to the relevant GitHub issue or internals discussion thread, and going from there. The only things that should change in the meeting itself are the positions of one or more people on the team.</p>



<a name="192566851"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192566851" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192566851">(Apr 01 2020 at 17:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that's true, but to some extent I think that when you're not in the meeting you may not try to examine the solution space, or not really understand it fully</p>



<a name="192566860"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192566860" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192566860">(Apr 01 2020 at 17:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>To be clear: New rationale can be raised; we just are not supposed to make <em>decisions</em> based on new rationales</p>



<a name="192566943"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192566943" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192566943">(Apr 01 2020 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>(but maybe that's what <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="239881">@Josh Triplett</span> said. <span aria-label="slight smile" class="emoji emoji-1f642" role="img" title="slight smile">:slight_smile:</span> )</p>



<a name="192566980"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192566980" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192566980">(Apr 01 2020 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>In particular your point about "silently lost but not saying anything" I think happens <em>with</em> Zoom, too, just for those not in the meeting if that makes sense</p>



<a name="192567159"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192567159" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192567159">(Apr 01 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>That's entirely possible, but I think the meeting should be first and foremost for the people in it. We want to be transparent, and show how the process works and what our thoughts were, but the primary point of the meeting is for the language team itself to make progress.</p>



<a name="192567231"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192567231" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192567231">(Apr 01 2020 at 17:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>(and in some sense is <em>worse</em> because it's much more work intensive to ask questions outside of video meetings, especially in areas where you don't have a lot of background experience)</p>



<a name="192568659"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192568659" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192568659">(Apr 01 2020 at 18:02)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116122">simulacrum</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F/near/192564908" title="#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F/near/192564908">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I think it is true that we'd likely have less ability to have (short) but fairly in-depth discussions at triage meetings if we move to Zulip, but that's maybe not a bad thing. I have felt that those -- while accelerating how quickly some decision can get made -- likely leave out feedback from those not in the room</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think that description is apt, but I do also think it would be unfortunate to give up on that, because language team triage mostly consists of that sort of thing... e.g., 10 minutes per issue of detailed discussion</p>



<a name="192729286"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192729286" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192729286">(Apr 02 2020 at 21:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it might make sense to do a "trial run" here. We don't, after all, have to be totally locked in one way or the other.</p>



<a name="192730083"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192730083" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192730083">(Apr 02 2020 at 21:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>I also think that if we manage to get design meetings going more regularly and on more topics, we might not need full-bandwidth triage meetings as often.</p>



<a name="192730190"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192730190" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192730190">(Apr 02 2020 at 21:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think if we do a trial pre-triage here, I would most likely just sit and add links to the document and not write anything on Zulip</p>



<a name="192730202"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192730202" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192730202">(Apr 02 2020 at 21:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can't focus on doing that and tabbing out to writing here</p>



<a name="192730284"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192730284" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192730284">(Apr 02 2020 at 21:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>leading a meeting and writing at the same time is hard, but at least I don't have to lead a meeting in pre-triage</p>



<a name="192730320"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192730320" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192730320">(Apr 02 2020 at 21:38)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="126931">@centril</span> I strongly recommend that the person leading the meeting and the person taking minutes or updating a doc not be the same person.</p>



<a name="192730345"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192730345" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192730345">(Apr 02 2020 at 21:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've had experiences at work to support that: it's a pain to lead and take minutes at the same time.</p>



<a name="192730456"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192730456" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192730456">(Apr 02 2020 at 21:40)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="239881">@Josh Triplett</span>  yes sure; having a secretary and a chair-person is better, but the chair has to follow what is being said in the meeting</p>



<a name="192730468"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192730468" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192730468">(Apr 02 2020 at 21:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>and talking and reading concurrently is also distracting</p>



<a name="192730597"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192730597" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192730597">(Apr 02 2020 at 21:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>(Also, I still don't really like Zulip -- I was sorta reluctant to come over here)</p>



<a name="192762003"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/192762003" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lokathor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#192762003">(Apr 03 2020 at 06:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>One note: if the entire meeting is a single Zulip topic there's no reason to take minutes during the meeting. You can arrange the "minutes" at the end, or anyone can just read through the topic.</p>



<a name="193379129"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage%20meeting%20on%20Zulip%3F/near/193379129" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/triage.20meeting.20on.20Zulip.3F.html#193379129">(Apr 08 2020 at 21:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>(yes, in compiler team meetings, we usually we just put <span aria-label="point up" class="emoji emoji-1f446" role="img" title="point up">:point_up:</span> emojis on significant points, though I do like to have an auxiliary document to try and shape out the consensus at various points)</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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